האם יש כ"כ הרבה נוזלים בחזה הודו\עוף?

[NSH1]

טוענים שהמים המוספים הם כ10 אחוז..
בפועל? לך תדע

[toxicity]

פורסם במקור על ידי nsh1

טוענים שהמים המוספים הם כ10 אחוז..
בפועל? לך תדע

אני לא מבין אם המשפט בחתימה שלך הוא רציני או ציני

[NSH1]

פורסם במקור על ידי toxicity

אני לא מבין אם המשפט בחתימה שלך הוא רציני או ציני

אם כבר אתה שואל
אני ב-80 אחוז סבור שכן, עפ"י מחקרים שקראתי ברשת, ועל סמך הודעה מפורשת של ניגרי ענק [מתחרה ומפתח גוף].


מה שכן, יש פה איזה חכמולוג פלצן אשכנזי בפורום שאני לא אזכיר את שמו כי יתנו לי השעיה, שבמקום להגיד לך "לא, זה לא ככה" הוא עוקץ ולא מוכיח כלום.



אז כן, המשפט שבחתימה שלי הוא רציני

[toxicity]

פורסם במקור על ידי NSH1

אם כבר אתה שואל
אני ב-80 אחוז סבור שכן, עפ"י מחקרים שקראתי ברשת, ועל סמך הודעה מפורשת של ניגרי ענק [מתחרה ומפתח גוף].


מה שכן, יש פה איזה חכמולוג פלצן אשכנזי בפורום שאני לא אזכיר את שמו כי יתנו לי השעיה, שבמקום להגיד לך "לא, זה לא ככה" הוא עוקץ ולא מוכיח כלום.



אז כן, המשפט שבחתימה שלי הוא רציני

אם כל הכבוד לניגרי ענק מה הוא כבר מבין? מה שהוא יודע זה מניסיון ונכון שניסיון זה דבר חשוב אבל המדע יותר מדוייק פה
הוכיחו כבר אני מסביר לך שזה לא משנה ואתה בא ראש מול הקיר ואומר שוב שהגוף לא יכול יותר?
איזה מחקרים ראית? ב ynet? תעשה לי טובה
ועוד בדיוק זה הנושא הכי חם פה בפורום ואתה עדיין לא הבנת איך זה הולך?

[NSH1]

פורסם במקור על ידי toxicity

אם כל הכבוד לניגרי ענק מה הוא כבר מבין? מה שהוא יודע זה מניסיון ונכון שניסיון זה דבר חשוב אבל המדע יותר מדוייק פה
הוכיחו כבר אני מסביר לך שזה לא משנה ואתה בא ראש מול הקיר ואומר שוב שהגוף לא יכול יותר?
איזה מחקרים ראית? ב ynet? תעשה לי טובה
ועוד בדיוק זה הנושא הכי חם פה בפורום ואתה עדיין לא הבנת איך זה הולך?

איפה? מי? מתי?
במקום לזיין לי במוח תביא אתה מחקר שאומר להפך

[Avi]

איפה קונים תבשר האורגני הזה משהו יודע?

[הזברה]

פורסם במקור על ידי NSH1

איפה? מי? מתי?
במקום לזיין לי במוח תביא אתה מחקר שאומר להפך

קרא את הנושא הבא:
http://www.israelbody.com/showthread.php?t=27528&page=3

מתוכו:
1.Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

Influence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism.
A study was conducted to investigate whether there is a diurnal pattern of nutrient utilization in man and how this is affected by meal frequency to explain possible consequences of meal frequency for body weight regulation. When the daily energy intake is consumed in a small number of large meals, there is an increased chance to become overweight, possibly by an elevated lipogenesis (fat synthesis and accumulation) or storage of energy after the meal. Thirteen subjects, two males and eleven females, were fed to energy balance in two meals per day (gorging pattern) and seven meals per day (nibbling pattern) over 2-day intervals. On the second day on each feeding regimen, the diurnal pattern of nutrient utilization was calculated from simultaneous measurements of oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide production and urinary nitrogen excretion over 3 h intervals in a respiration chamber. A gorging pattern of energy intake resulted in a stronger diurnal periodicity of nutrient utilization, compared to a nibbling pattern. However, there were no consequences for the total 24 h energy expenditure (24 h EE) of the two feeding patterns (5.57 +/- 0.16 kJ/min for the gorging pattern; 5.44 +/- 0.18 kJ/min for the nibbling pattern). Concerning the periodicity of nutrient utilization, protein oxidation during the day did not change between the two feeding patterns. In the gorging pattern, carbohydrate oxidation was significantly elevated during the interval following the first meal (ie from 1200 h to 1500 h, P less than 0.01) and the second meal (ie from 1800 h to 2100 h, P less than 0.05). The decreased rate of carbohydrate oxidation observed during the fasting period (from rising in the morning until the first meal at 1200 h), was compensated by an increased fat oxidation from 0900 to 1200 h to cover energy needs. In the nibbling pattern, carbohydrate and fat oxidation remained relatively constant during the active hours of the day

2.

Stote KS et. al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Apr;85(4):981-8.

BACKGROUND: Although consumption of 3 meals/d is the most common pattern of eating in industrialized countries, a scientific rationale for this meal frequency with respect to optimal health is lacking. A diet with less meal frequency can improve the health and extend the lifespan of laboratory animals, but its effect on humans has never been tested. OBJECTIVE: A pilot study was conducted to establish the effects of a reduced-meal-frequency diet on health indicators in healthy, normal-weight adults. DESIGN: The study was a randomized crossover design with two 8-wk treatment periods. During the treatment periods, subjects consumed all of the calories needed for weight maintenance in either 3 meals/d or 1 meal/d. RESULTS: Subjects who completed the study maintained their body weight within 2 kg of their initial weight throughout the 6-mo period. There were no significant effects of meal frequency on heart rate, body temperature, or most of the blood variables measured. However, when consuming 1 meal/d, subjects had a significant increase in hunger; a significant modification of body composition, including reductions in fat mass; significant increases in blood pressure and in total, LDL-, and HDL-cholesterol concentrations; and a significant decrease in concentrations of cortisol. CONCLUSIONS: Normal-weight subjects are able to comply with a 1 meal/d diet. When meal frequency is decreased without a reduction in overall calorie intake, modest changes occur in body composition, some cardiovascular disease risk factors, and hematologic variables. Diurnal variations may affect outcomes.

3.
J Nutr. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4

Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women.

Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP.

Unite d'Etude du Metabolisme Azote, Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique et Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, Clermont-Ferrand-Theix, France

This study was undertaken to determine whether a pulse protein feeding pattern was more efficient than a spread pattern to improve protein anabolism in young women as was already shown in elderly women. After a 15-d adaptive period [1.2 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d)], 16 young women (age 26 +/- 1 y) were given a 14-d diet providing 1.7 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d), using either a pulse pattern (protein consumed mainly in one meal, n = 8), or a spread pattern (spreading daily protein intake over four meals, n = 8). Nitrogen balance was determined at the end of both the 15-d adaptive and the 14-d experimental periods. Whole-body protein turnover was determined at the end of the 14-d experimental period using [(15)N]glycine as an oral tracer. Nitrogen balance was 17 +/- 5 mg N/(kg fat-free mass. d) during the adaptive period. It was higher during the experimental period, but not significantly different in the women fed the spread or the pulse patterns [59 +/- 12 and 36 +/- 8 mg N/(kg fat-free mass. d) respectively]. No significant effects of the protein feeding pattern were detected on either whole-body protein turnover [5.5 +/- 0.2 vs. 6.1 +/- 0.3 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d) for spread and pulse pattern, respectively] or whole-body protein synthesis and protein breakdown. Thus, in young women, these protein feeding patterns did not have significantly different effects on protein retention



גם מפה:
http://www.clalit20plus.co.il/NR/rdo...nabol ism.pdf

פורסם במקור על ידי m0she

שני הלינקים גם לא עובדים לי, את המחקר הראשון מצאתי אבל את השני שלא. אם יש למישהו את השם המלא שלו אני אשמח.

ציטוט מתוך המאמר שכן השגתי (1):

There was a tendency for a higher nitrogen balance in young women fed four protein-containing meals a day compared with young women fed three meals a day, with lunch providing 80% of daily protein intake [25]. However, for adequate intakes of energy and protein, there was no difference in nitrogen balance between young women fed three or six meals per day [26].

משמע, עבור צריכה מתאימה של חלבון וקלוריות, אין הבדל בין דפוסי הארוחות. יעל דרור כנראה קוראת מאמרים סלקטיבית.

עוד ציטוט:

In young subjects, the differences in protein anabolism were minor between the spread and the pulse patterns because the response of muscle protein synthesis to feeding was similar whatever the feeding pattern.

(1) Current Opinion in Clinical Nutrition & Metabolic Care. 6(3):301-306, May 2003.
Type and timing of protein feeding to optimize anabolism

אם כבר אתה שואל
אני ב-80 אחוז סבור שכן, עפ"י מחקרים שקראתי ברשת, ועל סמך הודעה מפורשת של ניגרי ענק [מתחרה ומפתח גוף].


מה שכן, יש פה איזה חכמולוג פלצן אשכנזי בפורום שאני לא אזכיר את שמו כי יתנו לי השעיה, שבמקום להגיד לך "לא, זה לא ככה" הוא עוקץ ולא מוכיח כלום.

מה הקשר בין זה שהוא מתחרה , לזה שזה נכון?

גם אני אומר את זה , יש לך בעיה איתי ? משה הביא מליון מחקרים, אתה מביא רק השמצות...

[NSH1]

פורסם במקור על ידי הזברה

קרא את הנושא הבא:
http://www.israelbody.com/showthread.php?t=27528&page=3

מתוכו:
1.Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

Influence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism.
A study was conducted to investigate whether there is a diurnal pattern of nutrient utilization in man and how this is affected by meal frequency to explain possible consequences of meal frequency for body weight regulation. When the daily energy intake is consumed in a small number of large meals, there is an increased chance to become overweight, possibly by an elevated lipogenesis (fat synthesis and accumulation) or storage of energy after the meal. Thirteen subjects, two males and eleven females, were fed to energy balance in two meals per day (gorging pattern) and seven meals per day (nibbling pattern) over 2-day intervals. On the second day on each feeding regimen, the diurnal pattern of nutrient utilization was calculated from simultaneous measurements of oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide production and urinary nitrogen excretion over 3 h intervals in a respiration chamber. A gorging pattern of energy intake resulted in a stronger diurnal periodicity of nutrient utilization, compared to a nibbling pattern. However, there were no consequences for the total 24 h energy expenditure (24 h EE) of the two feeding patterns (5.57 +/- 0.16 kJ/min for the gorging pattern; 5.44 +/- 0.18 kJ/min for the nibbling pattern). Concerning the periodicity of nutrient utilization, protein oxidation during the day did not change between the two feeding patterns. In the gorging pattern, carbohydrate oxidation was significantly elevated during the interval following the first meal (ie from 1200 h to 1500 h, P less than 0.01) and the second meal (ie from 1800 h to 2100 h, P less than 0.05). The decreased rate of carbohydrate oxidation observed during the fasting period (from rising in the morning until the first meal at 1200 h), was compensated by an increased fat oxidation from 0900 to 1200 h to cover energy needs. In the nibbling pattern, carbohydrate and fat oxidation remained relatively constant during the active hours of the day

2.

Stote KS et. al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Apr;85(4):981-8.

BACKGROUND: Although consumption of 3 meals/d is the most common pattern of eating in industrialized countries, a scientific rationale for this meal frequency with respect to optimal health is lacking. A diet with less meal frequency can improve the health and extend the lifespan of laboratory animals, but its effect on humans has never been tested. OBJECTIVE: A pilot study was conducted to establish the effects of a reduced-meal-frequency diet on health indicators in healthy, normal-weight adults. DESIGN: The study was a randomized crossover design with two 8-wk treatment periods. During the treatment periods, subjects consumed all of the calories needed for weight maintenance in either 3 meals/d or 1 meal/d. RESULTS: Subjects who completed the study maintained their body weight within 2 kg of their initial weight throughout the 6-mo period. There were no significant effects of meal frequency on heart rate, body temperature, or most of the blood variables measured. However, when consuming 1 meal/d, subjects had a significant increase in hunger; a significant modification of body composition, including reductions in fat mass; significant increases in blood pressure and in total, LDL-, and HDL-cholesterol concentrations; and a significant decrease in concentrations of cortisol. CONCLUSIONS: Normal-weight subjects are able to comply with a 1 meal/d diet. When meal frequency is decreased without a reduction in overall calorie intake, modest changes occur in body composition, some cardiovascular disease risk factors, and hematologic variables. Diurnal variations may affect outcomes.

3.
J Nutr. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4

Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women.

Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP.

Unite d'Etude du Metabolisme Azote, Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique et Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, Clermont-Ferrand-Theix, France

This study was undertaken to determine whether a pulse protein feeding pattern was more efficient than a spread pattern to improve protein anabolism in young women as was already shown in elderly women. After a 15-d adaptive period [1.2 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d)], 16 young women (age 26 +/- 1 y) were given a 14-d diet providing 1.7 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d), using either a pulse pattern (protein consumed mainly in one meal, n = 8), or a spread pattern (spreading daily protein intake over four meals, n = 8). Nitrogen balance was determined at the end of both the 15-d adaptive and the 14-d experimental periods. Whole-body protein turnover was determined at the end of the 14-d experimental period using [(15)N]glycine as an oral tracer. Nitrogen balance was 17 +/- 5 mg N/(kg fat-free mass. d) during the adaptive period. It was higher during the experimental period, but not significantly different in the women fed the spread or the pulse patterns [59 +/- 12 and 36 +/- 8 mg N/(kg fat-free mass. d) respectively]. No significant effects of the protein feeding pattern were detected on either whole-body protein turnover [5.5 +/- 0.2 vs. 6.1 +/- 0.3 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d) for spread and pulse pattern, respectively] or whole-body protein synthesis and protein breakdown. Thus, in young women, these protein feeding patterns did not have significantly different effects on protein retention



גם מפה:
http://www.clalit20plus.co.il/NR/rdo...nabol ism.pdf




מה הקשר בין זה שהוא מתחרה , לזה שזה נכון?

גם אני אומר את זה , יש לך בעיה איתי ? משה הביא מליון מחקרים, אתה מביא רק השמצות...

המאמר הראשון, כלל אינו רלוונטי לסינטזת החלבון בארוחה אחת; המאמר הראשון מדבר על שיטות שונות בתדירות הארוחות, ע"ע meal frequency, ואיננו מתייחס לכמויות של חלבון בארוחה אחת, ומה קורה איתו.

המאמר השני, גם הוא, פחות או יותר מתייחס לאותו הנושא כמו I, ומסביר שכאשר אוכלים ארוחה אחת, או שלוש, פר יום אזי התוצאה היא "There were no significant effects of meal frequency on heart rate, body temperature, or most of the blood variables measured."

ובכן, עדיין לא מצאתי התייחסות לניצול החלבון, כמות פר ארוחה, היעילות\ הספיגה של הכמות בארוחה אחת וכן הלאה.

לגבי המאמר השלישי, ובכן - שתי נקודות.
1. המחקר עצמו מושתת על הבדלים בצריכת חלבון (על בסיס של "מכה אחת", ועל בסיס "פיזור יומי") בין נשים צעירות ונשים מבוגרות. עדיף שהיה מדובר על מפתחי גוף או על אנשים שעוסקים בפיתוח גוף \ אנשים שמתאמנים באופן אינטנסיבי.

2. נקודה שניה, גם אצל הנשים (צעירות, זקנות) נמצאו הבדלים. הבדלים קטנים, אך בכל זאת.